With less than two years to go before the next federal election, Nationals leader Matt Canavan knows his time in Parliament could be running out, with polling showing his Senate seat representing Queensland may be under threat.
The economist got into politics during the first Rudd government, working as chief of staff to then-Nationals Senator Barnaby Joyce, before being elected to the Senate himself in 2013.
Joyce is “still a mate” Canavan speaks to regularly today, even after Joyce’s dramatic defection to Pauline Hanson’s One Nation, which has been gaining voters from both the Coalition and Labor.
Canavan joined us on the podcast to discuss whether he’d consider working in a coalition with One Nation; how to better manage AI, data centres and social media; and if he’d consider shifting to a lower house seat ahead of the next election.
Why One Nation is ‘not really compatible’ with the Coalition
Canavan said that when he speaks to voters around Australia, “there’s a level of engagement that I’ve never seen” – but that many feel frustrated with politics as usual.
More and more people are coming to events than I have ever seen before and people are listening. Now, yes, many of those people at the moment are probably saying that they would vote for One Nation, if an election will be held today. But they are still listening to us, and to me.
Despite more voters shifting away from the Coalition to One Nation, Canavan said he couldn’t see how the party could be part of a future three-way coalition because “[Hanson] is judge, jury and executioner. If you get off on her bad side, she’ll kick you out tomorrow.”
The very structure of One Nation’s party is not really compatible with the way the Liberal and Nationals parties operate. Look, we are different parties, the Liberal and Nationals, and we have slightly different cultures from time to time […] But at a governance level, we’re very similar in terms of how our members of parliament are selected, how our leaders are selected, how we operate with party rooms and processes. We gel together in that respect.
[…] It’s important to have a proper shadow cabinet process, where you debate things and get everybody’s views […] and then come to a point of agreement and consensus, and go and fight for that. That’s not how One Nation works. And I don’t think in any realistic way it’s going to ever be compatible, because that’s not the way Pauline runs her party. And that’s fine, it’s her party – she can run it the way she likes. But the simple facts are, it’s not how we run things. And so I can’t see there being a coalition among us.
On standing up for AI copyright protections
This week, Canavan accused US technology company OpenAI of blackmail, after reports it may pull back investment if the federal government didn’t water down Australian copyright protections.
There’s no way in hell that our country should erode property rights based on the threat of investment or non-investment. No, sorry, that is not how we work.
[…] When different types of technologies come along, there is sometimes negotiations that occur about how you access and use copyright material. Spotify has done it of course in recent times. The radio industry have these arrangements in place to do it when they play music […] So we can sit down [with AI companies] and be reasonable. But it has to be done with a strong view that we will protect the property rights of Australians first, that’s our job.
And I would say to the artificial intelligence companies: you’re playing with fire here, because if you start saying that, ‘oh, well, these types of property rights are malleable’, well, what about your own? The whole IT industry is built on the value of intellectual property […] I think they should be protected, I’m sure they think they should be protected – but it cuts both ways.
On powering data centres
Canavan said he’s “not comfortable at this stage” with how well data centres are being regulated in Australia, “principally because it’s not clear that we have the energy” to supply them.
That’s the big problem. And to do so, I think we need to have nuclear energy for a start. Probably we also need some coal and gas as well to supplement things while that comes on. Without that, I fear this is going to have an enormous impact.
If it does have a big impact on energy prices, it will lose support pretty quickly. Now, in terms of in the bush, look, it’s a bit early to say. These are very, very new. Like any development, they are attracting concern. There’s concerns about power prices, concerns about water. I’m not, and never have, been anti-development. But any developer has to get local support on board. That’s my test. If you want to get your project going, get the locals on board; they’re my shareholders.
Read more:
Data centres have existed for decades. So why are they so controversial now?
On his future in Parliament
Polling suggests that Canavan’s place as a Queensland s could be at risk, given the sharp drop in Coalition support since the 2025 election. Asked if he’ll consider a move to the lower house, he said “I’ll consider it” once it’s clear if any seats need filling.
Whether I stay in the Senate, or go to the lower house, I think I’d be in the same position either way. And there’s no safe lower house seats, either, around right now.
[…] I’ve said I will not be challenging any sitting Nationals members, or any members of parliament. I desperately want all of my members to run again, because their name ID, their incumbency, their record is our best protection.
But if there is a need for someone to run, we’ve got to win seats in the lower house, I’ll consider that then […] I’m not going to die wondering. I’ll whatever I have to do to change this government. And, you know, whatever I do, wherever I run, you know, this could be my last election. I know that. I’m not going into it with any rose-eyed glasses.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
